discuss the entire security picture in
the EU at the moment with RT Sputnik
host and former MP George Galloway. He
joins us. Thanks very much for coming on
to the program uh this evening. Um
firstly, let's just discuss what David
Cameron's been saying because the
British prime minister is very keen to
start bombing Syria. Um do you feel
though this time he'll get enough
support within parliament to do that? Uh
probably yes. Um, it will be more or
less a gesture because there's no
shortage of people bombing Syria already
and it will not be accompanied by a
crackdown on Western funding for the
groups that are in the same package as
ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other extremist
groups. We'll continue to do that. our
allies in the Persian Gulf and our NATO
ally in Turkey uh will not turn away
from their attacks on the Kurdish people
and seriously tackle their yesterday
allies uh in the same boat. So, uh it'll
be a symbolic gesture. Uh but the the
the war drums are beating. The media is
in full almost uh fanatical mode. And so
I'm sure that the House of Commons will
vote to extend the British uh
involvement in the region from Iraq to
uh across the Syrian border. Mr. Cameron
says it's important that Britain is seen
to be doing something. Do you think or
what do you think Britain could do more
constructively to help? Well, they could
tackle the way in which the finances of
these groups uh continue to be largely
unhindered. uh they could uh uh ensure
their best friend. They tell us Saudi
Arabia is their best friend in the
Muslim world. Well, they could tell
their best friend that it has to stop
all this arming and funding and
extending propaganda
and dipl to these uh groups. Uh they
could do the same as I say with their
formal NATO ally in Turkey. That would
be a far better British contribution. Uh
Britain has been so much a part of all
the disasters in the Middle East
including the uh attack on Syria uh uh
in the uh past uh in covert form and of
course the invasion and occupation of
Iraq which set uh much of the momentum
of this fanaticism going in the first
place. Um just to get your opinion on
what President Obama has said today. I
mean, we saw him talking with Putin at
the G20 summit just the last week, and
things did seem pretty cordial, but now
we're hearing in his latest speech, he's
claiming that Russia's campaign in Syria
is actually perhaps helping ISIS because
it also targets the opposition. Uh,
what's your view on that? Well, I mean,
Obama is hot and cold, uh, as he's been
on many issues and right from the start
of his presidency. I had hoped that, uh,
after that tetat with President Putin
that we'd see a more sensible American
policy, but it doesn't look as if that's
going to happen. And therefore all hopes
of a genuinely united front against uh
these uh uh killers, this death cult uh
appear to be foundering now. Uh because
if you see Russia and the Syrian
government as the problem, then you're
certainly not going to come upon the
solution. So I'm not sure at what
juncture we now stand. We'll get a
clearer picture, no doubt, once Mr.
Cameron brings his motion before the
House of Commons. Uh but I don't think
we're going to defeat these people uh
anytime soon. You see, they keep talking
about the uh need for bombardment, but
as I started out by saying, bombs are
not going to solve this problem. They're
not solving it yet. Uh in any case,
despite all the bombs that are falling,
only a ground war can defeat these
people. And there already is a ground
war. And we should support the army, the
Syrian army and the Iraqi army who are
in that ground war and stop assisting
the people that they are fighting
against. It's really not rocket science,
but it appears to be beyond our leaders.
And just moving to Europe at the moment
now, because obviously people are very
concerned about security there and the
refugee influx and the possibilities of
terrorism that could be linked to that.
Um, do you think tightening borders is
the answer?
Uh well, of course, uh border checks
have to be a part of it, and I listened
with some alarm to the report you just
uh ran. Uh I'm not sure that the Shenhen
agreement can survive the crisis that we
currently have. Uh I'm not sure what all
this expenditure on intelligence is
achieving. Um there are reports today
that virtually every terrorist that's
been involved in outrages over recent
years was already on the radar of
intelligence. And indeed the so-called
mastermind of the Paris events appears
to have been able to move between ISIS
controlled territory in Syria and Europe
back and forward regularly uh without uh
uh intervention without uh uh being
stopped. So uh there are many many
aspects to this whole affair that don't
really add up, don't really make much
sense. I'm not sure that the uh western
countries that claim to have been
fighting ISIS over this last period
really were doing so. and the events of
the last 24 hours where they've started
to go cold on the idea, the Russian idea
of a united front, a genuine
international united front against them
uh uh has uh has, as I say, gone cold.
So, um I'm wondering who ISIS really
are, who their friends really have been,
and who their enemies, uh as declared,
uh really were in terms of sort of the
political ramifications too within
Europe. I mean, do you see do you see it
likely that we're going to see a big
move now towards far-right movements
within uh and political parties within
Europe as a result of this? Presumably,
this is something that they can jump on
to. Yes. There's a real danger of that
in France in particular, but in Belgium,
too. Uh, we've got a bi-election coming
up in Old. It would be very bad news, I
think, if the far right xenophobic
nationalist UKIP were to win that
bi-election. Um, but undoubtedly the uh
air is full of propaganda, xenophobic,
islamophobic propaganda. Let's go in. I
it was put to me on the radio this
morning by a national radio presenter.
Uh we'll be in Raqqa by Christmas. Well,
of course, uh the presenter had no
intention of going into Raqqa himself or
sending his son there and appeared
oblivious to the fact that whatever
strength there is in Raqqa, was uh was
greatly assisted by the British
government that is now claiming they
will be in Raqqa by Christmas. It's an
extraordinarily convoluted imbroio this
and uh I don't think we have the men or
the measures at the top in British
society to meaningfully get to grips
with it. And just on a final point uh
George, is there much of a backlash
towards Muslims in Britain at the
moment? This is a concern across many
countries in Europe. Well, I was at a
very large mosque in the Walthamto area
of London campaigning on Friday. uh
thousands of Muslims were there. They
were, as 99% of all Muslims always do,
utterly denouncing the death cult, ISIS.
Uh but every single one of them, I
think, was anxious about what this
atmosphere means for themselves, their
families, their property, their mosques,
their schools and so on. It's a very
very dark moment that we have arrived at
uh in world history and those who are
responsible for it will uh will be
condemned forever in history I believe.
Okay, look good to talk to you. We have
to leave it there. That was George
Galloway, host of Sputnik and a former
MP. Uh thank you.